Changes to Gold Drops

124

Comments

  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, but its always been that way. It doesn't really help when you have 1 person who owns about 10 shops between 2-3 places. This doesn't help either. However, the only thing I guess I can tell you is do more questing/hunting so you can accrue more gold for the next time around.

    I know it doesn't help this time, but its the best advice I can give. Sorry.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ya it's pretty weird there's no way you'd make enough gold to pay it off in that time unless you're selling like top grade onions or potatoes or something.




    EmelleAvishai
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Forging hammer is like that too. Required for forging pretty much (everyone wants massive stats), costs 750cr. Gl making that back.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    Xavin
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The difference is that the auction shops seem to have been intended to let newer people get access to shops. You can't really justify 250k on a four month shop, you know?

    EmelleTragerAvishaiTeani
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think I have mentioned it once before, but I'll say it again:

    Let each organization, should it choose, opt to purchase and stand as proprietor for -ONE- shop, and add a position as Quartermaster in the organization to handle it. Then put a restrictions on players to own -ONE- shop each, without being able to let others handle their affairs should they go inactive.



    EmelleRiluo
  • KerrynKerryn The Black Flagon InnMember, Guildmaster Posts: 270 ✭✭✭✭
    Teani said:

    I think I have mentioned it once before, but I'll say it again:

    Let each organization, should it choose, opt to purchase and stand as proprietor for -ONE- shop, and add a position as Quartermaster in the organization to handle it. Then put a restrictions on players to own -ONE- shop each, without being able to let others handle their affairs should they go inactive.

    ANNOUNCE NEWS #2399
    Date: 4/22/2015 at 16:46
    From: Razmael, the Synthesist
    To : Everyone
    Subj: Player activity changes

    Hey folks,

    In the effort of putting more of the game in control of the players who are truly active and
    actually playing, I'm introducing a couple of changes.

    a) I've shifted all election vote weights down by 1 point. This now means that people with < 5 hours
    of average play time over a five week period will now have an effective vote weight of 0 and will be
    unable to vote.

    b) Shop taxes can now only be paid by the person who actually owns the shop.

    No doubt these will be some controversial changes, but I believe it's in our interests to not have
    people who are not actively playing monopolizing aspects of the game.

    Penned by my hand on the 25th of Ios, in the year 447 MA.

    Shop taxes already can only be paid by the owner of the shop. However, it doesn't address the person who logs in pays taxes and goes back to being inactive.

    There's also a shop that has sat closed since Esterport opened, because the player no longer plays, that hasn't been put up for auction yet.

    Most cities already have a policy of one personal shop per person. Except Esterport and maybe the refugee camp. I don't really go there so, can't be sure about that one. But people do generally have multiple shops, just in different cities. Not sure we need to limit a person to a single personal shop in the entire game though.

  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    I think alot of complaints about the pricing of the shops is because of the gold drops. This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you think the price is too high but don't have enough gold, go out and hunt/quest/etc to get said gold. There are dozens of ways to get gold in Aetolia. However, I think the problem lies in the fact that people still have such an ABUNDANCE of gold pre-nerfs that they can just throw massive amounts of gold at whatever they like because they have it and have nothing else to spend it on.

    That said, even with the gold nerfs, plenty of things either cost MORE gold or the same. Amulets still cost 15k gold, comms have been increased in price (iirc, I might be wrong, but I don't really watch them because I'm not a crafter), credit prices have gone up by 2k (~6k per average) since the gold changes, and overall all ease of gold has dropped away from hunting to questing instead (while quests still take anywhere from 1-2 hours to repop their quest)... but people don't want to quest because it takes more time/patience than pressing X til xorani is dead.

    There's nothing we can really do to change any of this until the amount of gold in the game starts dropping. So, until then, sit tight and relax... or go out and do some questing/hunting/etc to gain some gold.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • TrikalTrikal Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    I'm fairly surprised by how much these shops are going for this time around, despite gold being more difficult to get. I think the problem is there's nothing to really spend your large gold reserves on, prizebags are there, and I don't have the numbers, but I doubt they're selling well. Without chests to regularly get gold out of the game, these shops are sucking out a large chunk of gold for this auction. It definitely sucks as I've owned one for the last two, and intent to keep having it, but it's more than it was before, and I think it's just because more people are able to not spend gold on anything else worthwhile. These shops aren't worth ~500k for the lease length, but personally I have the gold and nothing else to spend it on, so I'm going to continue leasing the one I have been.
    EmelleAvishai
  • TeaniTeani Evening Sky SwedenMember Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Personally I think the biggest change recently was the shift with commodities. It's noticeable as a crafter, because prices have gone up. Some people out there with shops haven't adjusted their prices on wares to reflect the change yet, while others have. It's tough to compete without selling at a loss.

    For example: Waterwalking enchantment requires 1 elemental ice, 2 gold and 1 silver.
    If you purchase this from the cheapest village commodity shop, available to everyone, it will cost 333+(171x2)+83=758 gold to make one.
    Still, I see people selling them for 300, taking a loss with each sale. Yes, some commodities are cheaper to get from your city, but the difference is not huge. I know I wouldn't be able to sell it for less than 700 as a Spirean if I want to make a profit. It's a bit frustrating and I can only hope that those other people will either run out of commodities or change their price policies so my own prices seem a bit more reasonable.



    EmelleErzsebet
  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    @Teani, I doubt the people who go and undersell their items for a loss, even really care about making a profit. Again, most shop owners own a shop for what?? RP. So what if they lost out on 400 gold? As far as their concerned, they can make that gold back by running their mines a few times and getting 1200 gold every time. Woopie.

    Another reason why I believe things are so cheaply priced is because of how inflated the market is with them. I can go into any city and see 8 shops selling enchantments, 20 shops selling curatives, and almost EVERY shop selling some sort of frilly/lace/combat shirt/pants/clothes combination. It all goes back to Supply/Demand 101. Unless there becomes a point where people ARENT selling the same things as everyone else, I do not think pricing will ever change.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    Riluo
  • FaerahFaerah Member Posts: 216 ✭✭✭✭
    Zsadist said:

    @Teani, I doubt the people who go and undersell their items for a loss, even really care about making a profit.

    The Shadow Matrix, for example, gives a 75% discount to Syssin and a 50% discount to Spireans. The idea being that the shop is there to ensure that everyone is well-supplied, not make a profit.
  • JensenJensen Corruption's Butcher Member Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Org shops also survive on players donated time/goods. It doesn't necessarily matter to the org if there is an actual net loss when everything they get is 'free' from their perspective whereas the player(s) who offer the goods get increased esteem with their group and receive the fringe benefits from that.
    image
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Comparing credit prizes to gold drops these days, I am so happy I will never need to buy credits with gold ever again. The changes surrounding cryptic chests and gold drops have made the game exceptionally inaccessible for anyone wanting to try it out without paying money for their credits.
    image
    Draiman
  • KonnornKonnorn Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭✭
    I make just as much gold as before, if not more since I found a few new quests. The only reason I'm not buying too many ic credits is because people aren't selling all that many and because of that, the price is higher and just not worth it.

     

  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    The reason why its not worth it, is because there's nothing to sink gold into. The admins previously removed cryptic chests and replaced them with prize bags, however these prize bags are 1000x worse than what the cryptic chests were! Cheaper and plentiful, sure. But the quality of them are garbage.

    Tack that onto the fact that there is literally 0 worthwhile things to spend gold on, there's no reason to SELL credits on market for gold. Which is also why credit prices are still so high even after gold nerfs.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    Erzsebet
  • ErzsebetErzsebet Member Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Re: Shops. Shops can and do make profit for some people. I usually get between 15 and 70k per season, per shop on all the shops Erz owns. When I don't, I make, at minimum enough to cover the taxes on all four. I think the easiest fix for the shop abundance issue would be to allow the artifact shelves to be stackable. I have as many shops as I do, between me and Ve'kahi, because I have (and still have more that don't fit) the designs to stock that many, they don't all FIT in one. All of them have a level 3 shelf and I would totally buy a lot more level 3 shelves if I could consolidate the designs into a lower number of shops. Relating to selling things at a loss, I bought all my basic comms (wood, cloth, obsidian, leather, iron, silver) at between 1 and 3 gold, generally, and even where that's not the case, I make up the difference in shiny things because it costs me next to nothing to make them as far as gold is concerned because I paid a credit price (or an iron coin price, where gold bars are concerned) to do that. For every 15k a shop of mine makes, ignoring the cost of shop taxes, at least 10, but usually closer to 14k of it is profit, depending on what it is. The lower number generally applies to forging things and things made with wood, with everything else, especially jewelcraft having a much higher profit margin. So that's why I haven't adjusted anything but my vial prices. I can sell select things at a loss and make it up elsewhere.

    Re: Gold and goldsinks. My shops are now my only real source of income, because I've always disliked bashing, and I dislike questing even more, if that's possible. I play this game primarily for RP, I don't have the time or patience to deal with quests or bashing for gold, especially when the only thing there is that I need to spend it on is comms and I can't even do that because the commodity market is unicorns.

    I think the game should be playable on all levels without excessive grinding. You can't combat in some classes because of the wood shortage. You can't craft if you have woodcraft for the same reason, or in furniture because of the asinine shift to the furniture trade. Soon you won't be able to combat at all for the lack of vials if you don't have artifact versions because the stockpiles those of us who craft and sell these things have is going to run out. Cloth is short, too, so that's tailoring and bandages. If this is not addressed, we will get to the point where the only thing we can do is sit around and RP, with no clothes, no furniture, no props, no shops and rather limited fun.

    Aet is supposed to be pay for perks, not 'pay to be able to do anything basic at all' unless that model changed somewhere and no one told us. Because right now, to make a successful newbie, you either have to buy credits with real money and sell them for gold, or bash/quest for a couple reallife days just to acquire basic curatives, and another couple days for a semi-decent* outfit. *Here defined as 'acceptable to most orgs'. That used to be accomplishable in a couple hours without outside assistance.

    In general, I think the gold drops were reduced too far. I think the ways to get gold are now too limited. Not very many people -like- to quest. There are plenty who do, but they always did, and there are many who prefer other methods. I think removing/severely limiting those other methods was a mistake.

    We do need goldsinks, but screwing the comm market wasn't the way to obtain one. I'm sitting on millions of gold across 21 characters, with only a couple of them having little-to-no gold, those being much less played than the others. I used to buy chests every time I had the gold for it. The prizebags aren't worth it considering the increased likelihood I'll get unicorns I don't want or need and the very low chance I'll get something that I actually want. I'll buy credits on occasion, if they're low enough, but they usually aren't. We need something we can buy that's worth the gold spent so we have stuff to spend it on. Not necessarily talking a chest equiv that fixes the problems Raz had with the other one, though that'd work, but we need -something- to spend our gold on.

    My two sovereigns, anyhow.
    imageimage
  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not even sure what you were trying to say there. You spent the first half talking about much gold you make from shops and plugging for more potential for shop income, the middle talking about how getting gold is too hard, and the last half asking for more things to spend gold on.

    Pay for perks/pay is a little different than, 'I want to basically do nothing but write emotes and make gold from it.'

    I can see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day you're going to have to be willing to do -some- of those things that players have available to them to make gold. Bash. Quest. Involve yourself so much in politics or city work that you get paid for it. Something. Not haven rp.

    The gold is out there. And just like in rl, you gotta go get it.
    ZsadistFezzixTrager
  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Comm scarcity is a pain in the unicorns though because there's not really an economy to speak of. If I have to charge 4k for a warhammer I'm going to get undercut by someone else who isn't forging for profit but because they have 4k (chump change) lying around to spend on comms to hook their buddy up. So now I'm not going to pay off this hammer AND I have to keep trying to track down comms and stuff to replenish my stock. It just seems like a headache that was added in because of the cryptic chest thing, and a poor bandaid fix at that.

    That being said, in the spirit of fairness, since there ISN'T really an economy, I'm not exactly hurting on supplies. Just grumpy I have to do extra work to supply equipment to people when there's really nothing in it for me other than the thought that if everyone quits forging, the game's going to die.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    Erzsebet
  • ErzsebetErzsebet Member Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not sure what about what I said was hard to follow. It was a multi-topic post and clearly segmented by those topics.

    The first part was responding to the people saying shops aren't profitable, and also not available enough. Was just saying they can be profitable and offering a fix to the availability. I spend my effort for gold in the aforementioned shops and that works for me. But it's not an avenue that everyone can take, or even that just anyone that wants to can take, which is why I offered an easy solution to the problem. One that also makes the company money, at that.

    I'm not asking to get gold off of exclusively RPing, I'm saying that I shouldn't have to spend ridiculous amounts of time doing other things to acquire the basic stuff needed for RP. Or bashing or combat, for that matter.

    The rest, tl;dr: If you don't have a shop, gold is too hard to get and we have extremely limited options by which to do so. Even if you have a shop, unless you've stockpiled comms. And yes, we need more goldsinks.



    imageimage
    Atrapoema
  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    We get where you're going with your post, as segmented as it was. However, there are many EASY ways to get gold that tons of people just don't utilize...

    1) There is a ylem bonus that you can get 30k gold from every 12 days (1 season IG) IF you have 750k gold in the bank. 750k gold is NOT hard to get. What's hard is leaving it in there to accrue said gold.
    2) Ylem mines. You get 1000 gold every time you do it. It takes all of 5 minutes to do it. That's 30k in a month. And would LITERALLY take 5 minutes... if not quicker depending on the quest you get. Its not hard... a level 1 newb can do it.

    In any given month, you can easily make 90k (60k of it, you didn't have to do ANYTHING other than be active). Not only that, but this 90k is gained so easily that you don't have to stop ANY rp/emote throwing to do it.

    Rashar hit the nail on the head with his post. There is gold to be made out there, just be active. You don't make money sitting on your unicorns in bed, in your house, watching The Bachelor. You have to have a job to make money. This is no different.

    I've got nothing to say on the comm market since I buy artifact everything (I have no idea how the comm availability even work)... except for bandages. However, @Toz is also right. If people stop forging (right now there are only 4 forgers in the game: Urial, Toz, Solaria, and Rasani), the game will die because weapon classes (Sentinel, Teradrim, Praenomen, Templar, Carnifex, Syssin) will no longer be able to be played. This needs to be addressed*.

    *Note: If I didn't have to give up Reanimation, I'd have forging as well and be a forger too, but that's a separate issue altogether.

    HOWEVER, there is an issue with goldsinks. Cryptics were nice but the ability to turn gold directly into credits was a huge issue, but the prizebags are absolutely garbage. (See my post or others on an adjustable fix here)

    In any case, that's my spiel.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • XandrenXandren Member Posts: 200 ✭✭✭
    got nothing important to say, just wanna note:

    Yeah. Comms market= BROKEN AS HELL.

    As a person who is now outside of a city, I find it almost impossible to find ANYTHING as far as wood or steel goes. Either more villages stocking both plz, more villages with commshops that can sell both, or maybe influx this material in a way that isn't immediately... I dunno.. hoardable? I am not targetting anyone in particular because I dunno who does it, but I feel like hoarding is the only real way to make sure anyone has any comms, because if you're not sitting on top of a commshop 24/7 until you fill your cache, you're not going to get any amount of comms to keep you going, for any price that'd be viable as far as marketing goes.

    Tl;Dr: Please PLEASE fix the commodity scarcity, I feel like leather is the only comm not frantically scarce as heck -_-"
    The rushing sound of waves breaking upon a shore fills your mind as Slyphe imparts to you, "Meltas is a bit..special sometimes..."
  • ErzsebetErzsebet Member Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    I -do- get the 30k a season on interest on everyone that wasn't made post gold-drop adjustments. Frankly, it's too much of a pain to acquire 750k in the current set up. Which, yes, the decision not to do so is on me, and yes, I could do it if I put in the effort, I just feel that it's too -much- effort, at this point.

    But really, my statement on the gold thing is more that it shouldn't be as hard/time-consuming as it is to get basic stuff without the assistance of others. More in the way of other people than myself--I'm lazy, I just liquidate credits. But I know people who have tried to play, who quit playing because it takes too long to start anything, even something as simple as a basic outfit and a basic standard set of bashing cures as far as gold goes.

    Eta: There are limited forgers, I agree with that bit, and ideally we need more of them 'cause not having them is problematic, as stated. Though I forge, too, I don't really focus on stats at all, I stock the first round of whatever I get when I forge which makes most of it less useful for combat unless I get lucky.
    imageimage
  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If they added more to villages, it'd just get bought out as quickly as it currently does because of either 1. people purchasing to replenish city supplies, 2. asset denial for the other side of the game, or 3. manipulation of the commodity economy, so that the other cities have to ratchet up their own prices/restrict their own markets. Does it suck? Yeah, it sucks. But what can we really do about it?

  • TozToz Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Xavin said:

    If they added more to villages, it'd just get bought out as quickly as it currently does because of either 1. people purchasing to replenish city supplies, 2. asset denial for the other side of the game, or 3. manipulation of the commodity economy, so that the other cities have to ratchet up their own prices/restrict their own markets. Does it suck? Yeah, it sucks. But what can we really do about it?

    Not have reactionary changes that don't get touched for months after deployment? I get it was for war which is Soon(tm) but giving all crafters a 12 month headache isn't so great a way to prep for it. Make the initial opt-in for war super comm heavy or raising forces costs a ton of them to drain city reserves if that is still the issue?

    Edit: all I really want is to not have to scrounge for comma when I need one. No matter the cost.
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I'll still never forget the first time I saw Toz throwing hammers."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "I freaked out and thought they had somehow managed to pull me into them."
    (Oasis): Azzello says, "So I tumbled away from my team and into theirs."


    Erzsebet
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They could add in a way to do comm denial that doesn't consist of camping the comm shops and instantly buying everything out when they get something in Stock. Could tie it into war/factions somehow, or daily quests, and even add some pk to it. Example: 

    Village A is a neutral village known for its abundance of wood. During the last war or something Enorian signed a trade agreement with the village through some mechanical means of alignment or something. Who knows. Bloodloch can no longer buy wood from their shop. BUT there's  2 options available for Bloodloch. They can raid the village and kill the lumberjacks/workers and steal x amount of comms,  or they could do a daily quest of some sort to sabotage the comm supply and make off with some wood.

    Similarly, Enorian could defend the workers during a raid. If successful they get a bonus to wood supply from that village. Or they could do daily quests or something to help increase wood supply. 

    Or something. Idk, that may not be super clear but I'm on my phone and typing is hard. Gives interaction to the comm market beyond camping shops and has avenues for pkers and non pkers to help. Win win for everyone. 
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    ZsadistEmelleDidi
  • KerocKeroc A small cupboardMember, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 364 admin
    edited June 2016
    Just to alleviate some concerns, comm generation isn't going to be the way it is forever. We're just letting city stocks deplete out some before we turn it back up. Most cities still have large quantities of comms, nag your leaders to sell a bit more if you're running low.

  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow Keroc is a snitch.
    KerocTragerDraiman
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I sort of wish there were more credits for sale on the market. Or something else I could use my gold for.
    image
  • TedrunaiTedrunai Member, Immortal Posts: 114 Immortal
    @Alexina you could go for that fame line in Ankyrean Treasures!
  • AnteheAntehe Member, Immortal Posts: 385 Immortal
    Yeah! I heard that Tedrunai scrub got it, can't let him have all the glory!
    Tedrunai
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