PK Discussion From Rage (Split, Not a Rage Thread)

24

Comments

  • RasharRashar Member Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can always just set up a trigger to let you know when a lesser pops and turn on the clan long enough to ask for a web!
    Ishin
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Reux A lot of those questions can be found out just from fighting and yanno..finding out. Like Lim said, fight, a lot. Yeah you're prolly gonna lose some but it happens. Thankfully Aetolia still isn't at a place where -all- the info is just thrown out there and you can make a system to take you to the top without ever fighting. I mean, I'm sure you could if you really worked at it, but that's not fun is it? o.o

    And a random tip, you can make one trigger for diag tracking. Check out config simplediag I think. Basically ends up looking like:

    ^afflicted with (\w+).
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    Ishin
  • RiluoRiluo The DoctorMember Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    I get owned all the time, but after each fight I improve something, even if it is just stalling people for a few extra seconds or like yesterday creating a parry set up. I am mid-tier but I am trying to push that each day so I can slide into the next section.

    Abhorash says, "Ve'kahi has proved that even bastards can earn their place."

  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always found it helpful to build top-down. Or, backwards, depending on how you want to see it. Sorta like this...

    End goal: Vivisect

    Needs: Quad breaks

    Needs: Softlock

    How to softlock: Anorexia, Asthma, Indifference, Slickness

    Then you just work from there. Figure out what affs, how you can trip people up. Aetolia's combat is unique in that it has a linear cure order. Other games, MKO for example, you can have 4 body afflictions and when you FOCUS BODY, it cures one of them completely randomly, which makes it muuuuch harder to track and pay attention to. Don't be intimidated. Be challenged!!
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    Haven
  • TragerTrager Raiding your underwear drawer.Member Posts: 568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Having played with that kind of curing, (And thinking I loved it, too!) the idea now makes me sick to my stomach. D:

    Ishin
  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Trager said:

    Having played with that kind of curing, (And thinking I loved it, too!) the idea now makes me sick to my stomach. D:

    It has its ups and downs, but I have to agree that the complete randomness of it is reeeally annoying at times, lol. I like it because people actually have to pay attention to what's going on, but it's also really annoying because you might -really really- need to cure x, but heal and cure y instead, and it's like fffffffffffffffffffff.
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    Ashmer
  • AishiaAishia Queen Bee Member Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Reux I could answer all those Shaman questions if you asked!




  • MalokMalok Member Posts: 529 ✭✭✭✭
    Ishin said:


    It has its ups and downs, but I have to agree that the complete randomness of it is reeeally annoying at times, lol. I like it because people actually have to pay attention to what's going on, but it's also really annoying because you might -really really- need to cure x, but heal and cure y instead, and it's like fffffffffffffffffffff.

    Sounds like the sometimes enraging randomness of Magic the Gathering to me.
    "Hell hath no hold on a warrior’s mind, see how the snow has made each of us blind. Vibrant colors spray from new dead, staining the earth such a beautiful red."
    Ishin
  • ReuxReux Member Posts: 251 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Draiman said:

    And a random tip, you can make one trigger for diag tracking. Check out config simplediag I think.

    Woah. WOAH. Thank you. ^^
    Malok said:

    Sounds like the sometimes enraging randomness of Magic the Gathering to me.

    If you're relying on good luck to keep your MTG decks going, I'm not sure what to say. Part of deck building is making sure the flow is consistent. Even things like mana-screw/flood shows bad shuffling and wrong ratios. Sure, chance will eventually give you a crap setup, but MTG has mulligans to address this.

    I don't like hearing that kind of repeated argument at FNM. Luck is no excuse in competitive play, in any format. I admit that shuffling commander decks is irritating though. =/
    I mean, you know, an amount.


    Malok
  • TenshyoTenshyo Member Posts: 376 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Ishin said:

    Yeah. I fight a lot. SO WHAT @ASHMER.

    In general clan chat is pretty chill. Sometimes me and Rashar/Trager get into it. Sometimes me and Zsadist. But in general, it's pretty chill. Usually we fight a bit, then someone asks a combat question and everyone chips in, and it's left alone after that.

    I spent some time chatting with @Asaraii earlier about Prae stuff, and I also chatted some with @Melantha and @Tenshyo. Ftr, Ten, hitting me for 34% of my HP is so uncool man. Was like 2200 dmg in one combo, THROUGH PUTRE. T_T

    I had personally been thinking about making a general combat clan, but I'm not really sure how well that would work out. @Moirean already has one, but I'm not sure if it's for our side or for everyone or what.

    @Ishin‌ sorry bro, I hit like a truck *shrug*

    For the record, I also have no damage buff artis. Only zealot_hunt1 on my coat

  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker VirginiaMember, Guildmaster Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Tenshyo said:

    Ishin said:



    For the record, I also have no damage buff artis. Only zealot_hunt1 on my coat



    You make me weep black tears of butthurt.
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    RiluoTenshyo
  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    So, I was talking with @Nola earlier just to have a discussion with her as to why she chooses to not fight (I just chose a random lifer) and the conversation was rather interesting, considering she used to be a combatant:

    11:13:48 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// you're not a fighter. Can I ask you something?"
    11:13:57 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "// Sure."
    11:14:08 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// what stops you from wanting to PK and fight?"
    11:17:50 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// i'm asking for research purposes. Not to dog on you."
    11:18:03 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//no, I understand. Was just chatting with someone."
    11:18:59 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//Okay, I did partake in and learn combat a few years ago, actually. I'm not unfamiliar with it, I'd count myself as a mid-tier fighter then (not now, too rusty)."
    11:19:48 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//What started me doing that was actually when Edhain was around and there was the war system, and he and a group of people made that conflict fun - it wasn't, you know. Go to a lesser. Fight. Leave. Repeat. There was more of the RP to it - a story to be told in that fight, in that situation."
    11:20:14 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//Since I'm an RPer before a PKer, that was the draw. I could further supplement my RP that way."
    11:20:52 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//I participated in lesser after lesser when that conflict route was released, but then it just became.. boring and stale, and repetitive, and ultimately felt pointless."
    11:20:56 (Tells): You tell Nola, "/ hrm. I see. So being more RP oriented keeps you away from PK? Or is there more mechanics that stops you from wanting to PK?"
    11:22:00 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//It's mostly how PK outlets have developed over time, given the circumstances. You don't see raids anymore, you don't really see any group conflict outside of lessers, especially since the war system is discontinued."
    11:22:48 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// I feel you there. Honestly, if I could raid enorian/duiran, I'd destroy the guards and stand at city gates and be like, "Come at me"."
    11:23:22 Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//I don't really do duels. It's not that I wouldn't like them, but, dueling as a Daru, very few people pull that off well - Valingar is the best example. It's becoming more of a thing in our guild though so I've been trying to participate alongside them."
    11:23:58 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//I think the real issue isn't with mechanics, though, or the groups of people, or even the numbers."
    11:24:18 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//I don't know if you were around before, during the war system's best and worst moments, were you?"
    11:24:26 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//Pre-Raz."
    11:24:47 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// i'm not new to Aetolia, but I was never around for the war system."
    11:28:45 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//That was back when the focus was less on 'hey this isn't fair, hey this isn't balance, hey hey hey fix fix fix my skills'. So you had buggy, op, mix-match of stuff and people were forced to get really creative with their skills if they had the short stick. Like how Illidan was the only Druid combatant."
    11:29:12 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//You saw stuff like that, and having that one skilled person made for some really interesting skirmishes."
    11:29:55 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//I guess it just.. made it exciting, because the focus was less on looking for negatives in your mechanics and more just using what you had, to do the best you could, and having fun in the process."
    11:30:18 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//granted, there was a -lot- more division between dark and light players, animosity, ectr, too."
    11:31:16 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//I miss those days."
    11:32:08 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// hmm. So just no real outlet for actual combat outside of lessers?"
    11:33:15 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//It's that in the most basic way you could put it, and a bit more about no conflict for bigger resources. Just bigger, more important conflict."
    11:35:13 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// hrm. I see. Thanks :)"
    11:37:27 (Tells): Wafting, as if on the air, Nola's velvety tongue reaches your ear: "//you're welcome!"
    11:38:14 (Tells): You tell Nola, "// just trying to get answers because I want more people to be involved with
    PK, but I'm not sure what the general disagreements with it is."



    I had the same sort of conversation in the Oasis clan (love all you guys!):
    10:58:37 (Oasis): You say, "So i'm curious, for the 100+ people, would you be more inclined to randomly fight people if the xp was more than 90k per kill?"
    10:59:33 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "But you can't randomly fight people. You need reason."
    11:00:07 (Oasis): You say, "I'm getting to that."
    11:01:47 (Oasis): You say, "If the xp was more worth it, I think more people would fight. As it is, everyone wants Haven points or the enhancements, but they don't wanna bash or pk. Bashing because people don't like bashing, and pk because it requires a huge time investment for hardly any gain. I feel that if you up the pk xp gain, then more people might be inclined to PK."
    11:04:13 (Oasis): You say, "Thoughts?"
    11:04:18 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "The way to get more people to pk would be to make curing less complicated somehow and remove xp loss on death."
    11:04:28 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "It works on Imperian."
    11:04:46 (Research): Asaraii says, "^."
    11:04:49 (Oasis): You say, "They already did that for Lessers and made it so everyone gets xp in lessers."
    11:04:50 (Research): Asaraii says, "Mis."
    11:05:05 (Oasis): Lucie says, "I agree with Vorlus. There's a really steep learning curve that does not really appeal to people who aren't coding inclined."
    11:05:12 (Oasis): You say, "How do you figure curing
    should be less complicated? And at what point to you draw the line on xp loss?"
    11:05:26 (Oasis): Asaraii says, "Imperian's system works great with no xp loss. It's a great incentive to be like oh hey, I can go die a bunch keep trying and not have to bash for an hour to even hit even again."
    11:05:33 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "I don't know, I just know that it worked on imperian."
    11:05:57 (Oasis): You say, "I just want more people to get involved in PK on both sides."
    11:06:05 (Oasis): You say, "So i'm trying to brainstorm ideas here."
    11:06:07 (Oasis): Asaraii says, "It's still absolutely hilarious how people rage when they're killed there, but the fact that you don't lose hard work makes a lot more people jump into it."
    11:06:07 (Oasis): Lucie says, "I don't care about xp. I'm level 105, I don't know why I would. It's not about losing or gaining xp, for me anyway. You could offer a level a kill and I still would be just as confused and uninclined to learn how to code to play a game."
    11:06:29 (Oasis): You say, "Right, but you get enhancements now to augment your stats."
    11:07:24 (Oasis): You say, "Vorlus, how are you going to streamline curing to make it not confusing? They already have firstaid curing."
    11:07:50 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "How good is firstaid?"
    11:07:56 (Oasis): Colette says, "Meh."
    11:08:05 (Oasis): You say, "Its good enough for Riluo to kick my unicorns on a phone."
    11:08:26 (Oasis): You say, "Twice."
    11:08:41 (Oasis): You say, "So obviously not that bad."
    11:08:55 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Does it cure as fast as possible?"
    11:09:15 (Oasis): You say, "Idk, I haven't used firstaid in forever. When I did use it, it seemed pretty good."
    11:09:30 (Oasis): Lucie says, "First Aid cures on a tic, I believe."
    11:09:33 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Last I used it is worked on ticks, which was icky."
    11:09:40 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Ah."
    11:10:06 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Imperian's autocuring is more like a good trigger system."
    11:10:31 (Oasis): You say, "What do you mean?"
    11:10:43 (Oasis): Asaraii says, "I also love how Imp has in game queues for bal and eq."
    11:10:46 (Oasis): Asaraii says, ">_>."
    11:10:50 (Oasis): You say, "So does Aet."
    11:10:54 (Oasis): Asaraii says, "What!"
    11:10:57 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "It's like whoever made it took their curing system and imported in to rapture."
    11:11:01 (Oasis): Asaraii says, "I'm so stupid :D."
    11:11:04 (Oasis): You say, "Qeb/qe/qb."
    11:12:06 (Oasis): You say, "I just think there is something we're missing to get people involved in PK."
    11:12:37 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "When I returned to imperian after time away I just deleted my curing triggers/functions and made a simple system to adjust in game curing queues. Way faster due to it being server side."
    11:13:12 (Oasis): You say, "Right, I asked about that, my buddies said it was good."
    11:13:58 (Oasis): Colette says, "If there were something like that for aets, I'd be more inclined to engage in pk. Just because I'm not good/fast at coding and it's more of a pain for me than something I enjoy."
    11:14:45 (Oasis): You say, "You mean the curing, Colette?"
    11:14:51 (Oasis): Colette says, "Yeah."
    11:14:59 (Oasis): Lucie says, "I think pk was bigger in Achaea because a very good, consistently updated system was only 35 credits away. They also had cities getting raided which compelled people to get invovled."
    11:15:22 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Yeah, because of autocurer everyone most people in Imperian just jump in to pk, no losses helps too."
    11:15:53 (Oasis): You say, "So you think that if there was no xp loss in PK, you'd be more inclined to bash?"
    11:16:12 (Oasis): Colette says, "Yeah, I can't just jump into pk because my curing is too slow."
    11:16:31 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "I've been helping out with pk at lessers when I can, mainly because I need to update my own system."
    11:16:32 (Oasis): You say, "Firstaid, colette?"
    11:17:01 (Oasis): Colette says, "No, not firstaid. Tripwire currently. Using Oasis makes me nervous because it's too complex for me to edit."
    11:17:31 (Oasis): You say, "What version?"
    11:17:41 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Also, Imperian has regular pk events. Shardfalls and caravans are very common."
    11:17:56 (Oasis): Colette says, "I haven't downloaded the latest version yet."
    11:18:03 (Oasis): Asaraii says, "Yeah I hardly notice any arena events here either."
    11:18:03 (Oasis): You say, "Do SETTINGS."
    11:18:09 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "If we had another event type to fight over, people might do it."
    11:18:12 (Oasis): You say, "Er.. SETTING."
    11:18:24 (Oasis): Colette says, "2.14."
    11:18:28 (Oasis): You say, "Oh dear."
    11:18:36 (Oasis): Colette says, "I haven't played in a really long time."
    11:18:58 (Oasis): You say, "Yeah, Oasis isn't bad though."
    11:19:04 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Caravans are a great idea. A bunch of mobs that you have to hold up with walls and raid their caravan while fighting other factions for it at the same time."
    11:19:32 (Oasis): You say, "So I can start handing out updated versions."
    11:19:35 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "If unblocked the caravans move through the map from point to point."
    11:19:39 (Oasis): You say, "I work with Oasis too though."
    11:26:03 (Oasis): Vorlus says, "Firstaid does seem more fully featured than when I last used it."


    Also asked a random darkie about why they don't want to PK/fight on a more consistent basis, though I was asked that their name to not be shown when I posted to forums.
    10:28:43 (Tells): You tell X, "// you here?"
    10:37:10 (Tells): X tells you, "// Hi."
    10:38:42 (Tells): X tells you, "// Whats up?"
    10:38:48 (Tells): You tell X, "// can I ask you something, for research purposes?"
    10:39:25 (Tells): X tells you, "// Sure."
    10:40:10 (Tells): You tell X, "// I know you're not a fighter, and I'm curious as to why you choose to not fight or PK? I've seen you attend lessers, but you don't really fight at all outside of that."
    10:45:06 (Tells): You tell X, "// i'm not trying to pick on you. Just trying to poll random people as to why they don't fight."
    10:48:25 (Tells): X tells you, "// It isn't fun to die repeatedly and horribly every time. I stand 0 chance of winning, ever, against anyone who has any knowledge of offenses or has coded any sort of system. Everyone says, "Oh, but you just have to put the TIME in for that!" Well that requires 2 bits of time to be put in. 1) I'd have to learn to code. I've tried a little here or there with mixed success, and my understanding is you basically need a Bachelors in Computer Science to know how to code well enough to be successful in Aetolian combat. 2) I'd have to learn all the things all the classes do and how to optimize my offense and blah blah blah. I'd rather spend my time socializing, RPing, or bashing because those things are relaxing and entertaining. If I wanted to get my heart rate up I'd go for a run or something. Also, a lot of PKers are flat out unicorns assholes. So why voluntarily play more with them when I don't have to?"
    10:48:58 (Tells): X tells you, "// And if I wanted to spend time with assholes I'd go to a bar."
    10:51:35 (Tells): You tell X, "// thats understandable. Coding can be rather tricky, especially when there are multiple languages to use for coding purposes. What if there were more PKers? You know not just those of us who are well known because we fight alot? Or what if there was no xp loss during a PK fight? Or xp gain on PK was more lucrative?"
    10:52:04 (Tells): You tell X, "// would you want to fight/PK then?"
    10:55:09 (Tells): X tells you, "// If there were xp loss during lessers, I'd stop going. But outside of that, 1v1 combat has 0 appeal to me. It isn't fun. If you're looking for a way to get more people to get into 1v1 PK, put me down for "Not possible.""
    10:56:00 (Tells): You tell X, "// alright. Appreciated :)"


    Based off these three conversations alone, it seems PK isn't done for a vast majority of reasons:

    1) Because the time to learn to code is quite extensive and not everyone wants to spend the time learning to code. Not quite sure how this can be addressed other than us coders making offense systems for everyone else, though I'm not sure how lucrative that would end up being.

    2) There needs to more RP inclinations for combat, like Nola said. She only fought because it augmented her RP. Personally, I don't think the War System is going to fix it, nor are more Holy Wars (because those are just plain out stupid). I think we need to have adulterated raids, fights, etc. Hell, lets storm some guildhall! We all enjoy RP and some people only fight to augment RP, thats an avenue we can go down without the use of admin help, so long as we remain adults and not cry wolf when we die..... or start randomly issuing people.

    3) It seems some don't fight because there is a moderate loss in XP when you die, that you then have to bash back up to break even. As someone who hit endgame within 10 days of playing the game, I've never really had a huge issue with PK xp loss, but for those who are not endgame, this might cause a huge disturbance, thus pushing more people away from wanting to PK, because not everyone wants to spend the time bashing to endgame. To augment this, I think people would be more interested if xp loss wasn't there if you died to a player, much like it is now in lessers, and if xp gained when you kill a player was increased. Because lets face it, 90k xp gain is not a very good incentive to PK when I can bash that with 8 xorani kills when I'm in beastmode.

    4) There needs to be more room and events for PK. Having just lessers and majors isn't going to be great for getting a large PK crowd, because that stuff has alot of downtime. 1 lesser every 3-5 hours? And then its just a matter of pressing "bash (name)" and then autobashing them. There is no real reason to practice and fight outside of lessers. Again, Vorlus pointed out the many random events that is done in Imperian to stimulate PK. Now, I know Aetolia has much more class than Imperian, but I think we can all figure out more events to stimulate PK.

    5) Curing seemingly isn't streamlined or fast enough, even with firstaid curing. Now, I don't have much experience with this, but according to Vorlus, it can be faster or more streamlined. I'd suggest looking at Imperian's autocuring to get an idea of what Vorlus was talking about.

    6) I guess there are a fair number of people who become, for lack of X's terms, an unicorns when they start PKing and winning alot of fights. Personally, I haven't been witness to that, but I am quite aware that it probably does happen. This is easily fixed by the playerbase, considering those of us in Oasis keep in other in check when it comes to PK and alot of us make sure the egos don't overflow. I'm sure this can be done in a larger scale as well.


    All in all, there's alot to be desired for to increase the amount of people who PK. This would require a fair bit of effort on both admin end and playerbase end to successfully see a larger majority of people start to fight. However, I think that we can do this, considering the playerbase we do have.

    As for me personally, I would like to ask @Oleis, how come xp gain for endgame is only capped at 90k per kill max? Is it even possible to increase the max xp gain for pk kills, because that really destroys alot of traction with wanting to gain xp. Imperian PK xp stats for decent reference: http://forums.imperian.com/discussion/521/biggest-pk-exp-hauls
    The xp listed in the above link would make xp gain for pk kills really lucrative and useful and would likely entice more people to PK, instead of just bash.
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


    MalokMaelMoirean
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hear from former Imperian players that the game is dead/dying. I don't want to copy anything they've done.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    MalokIshinLimZsadist
  • MalokMalok Member Posts: 529 ✭✭✭✭
    Draiman said:

    I hear from former Imperian players that the game is dead/dying. I don't want to copy anything they've done.

    The reason that game is dying is not their PK system. It was one of the best features about it. The reason it's dead/dying is the ways in which they utterly destroyed the lore and story of the game over the years into something unrecognizable.

    I also completely appreciate and agree with Zsadist's post. Very well done.
    "Hell hath no hold on a warrior’s mind, see how the snow has made each of us blind. Vibrant colors spray from new dead, staining the earth such a beautiful red."
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So do something. We do not need admin help to create conflict. We need people to quit being scared of being called a griefer. It's going to happen, even if you're 100% ok in doing what you're doing. We need people to quit saying they want PK and getting upset when something happens that isn't a lesser. Create conflict! It's not hard! Go piss someone off. There's a myriad of reasons to do it, just make sure you have one. It's ok that the OOC intent is to create conflict. What's the difference between you deciding "Hey I'm going to go start some unicorns (within an RP'd reason)" and the admin doing it?

    Coding is not that hard and even if it was with the number of free systems floating about that point is moot anyways. THERE IS ALSO PEOPLE WILLING TO HELP IF YOU ASK.

    The moderate xp loss for death? I can't even. Like I mean I just can't right now, ok. Literally can't.

    RP reasons? See the first part of this poorly thought out post. Aetolia is being over run with pacifist. That's what it seriously feels like, and if they are the majority of the game then we are doomed for the type of conflict we want, Z. Just stick to sect and I guess start learning the level of code Ashmer is at so you can progress.

    Griefers were also covered in the first part.

    I'm not going to touch on number 5 because I think that's silly.

    /rant
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    Malok
  • AlissandraAlissandra Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    There is also no financial incentive to PK. Someone could spend ten minutes fighting and regardless of outcome have less money than if they had spent ten minutes doing anything else. Even idling. Because you aren't eating money idling (herbs. I am referring to herbs). Not that there needs to be financial incentive, there shouldn't be too be honest. But if your motivation is gold and not exp, forty billion exp per kill all isn't appealing.
    Malok
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If conflict starts becoming more common place then so will bounties. Bounties generate gold, 5kish a pop (just from BL average). More than enough to cover your costs for 3-4 fights.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



  • ZsadistZsadist Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    Draiman said:

    So do something. We do not need admin help to create conflict. We need people to quit being scared of being called a griefer. It's going to happen, even if you're 100% ok in doing what you're doing. We need people to quit saying they want PK and getting upset when something happens that isn't a lesser. Create conflict! It's not hard! Go piss someone off. There's a myriad of reasons to do it, just make sure you have one. It's ok that the OOC intent is to create conflict. What's the difference between you deciding "Hey I'm going to go start some unicorns (within an RP'd reason)" and the admin doing it?

    RP reasons? See the first part of this poorly thought out post. Aetolia is being over run with pacifist. That's what it seriously feels like, and if they are the majority of the game then we are doomed for the type of conflict we want, Z. Just stick to sect and I guess start learning the level of code Ashmer is at so you can progress.

    I'd like to first address the point of coding. I may not be on par with Ashmer's coding ability, but I learn fairly quick and am a pretty decent coder. I mean, if I can fix up TW to run somewhat well against people like Benedicto, Rashar, and Trager, I'm doing something right. I'm a coder by nature, and help people where I can.

    As for doing something to incite PK or RP, maybe its just because I'm too literal with my RP, but I'm not going to randomly run up to the @Daru and be like, "Kiss my boots or I PK all of you!" without some sort of catalyst. Because I had no reason to run up to them out of the blue. Does that limit my RP, hell yeah it does. But I'd love to do it, pk an entire guild, get some people actively hunting me, piking my head at the guildhall entrance. unicorns yea! But, again, no reason to. Plus, I don't want to be the guy that makes people quit aetolia because "Omgurd, that guys a unicorns unicorns and pk'd me for no reason!" We already have a limited playerbase and very rarely get new people to replenish our ranks, so that would be counterproductive.

    I'm not saying admin NEED to be involved to create conflict, I only pointed out that we do need more conflict. Beit player driven or admin driven. SOMETHING needs to be done.


    FYI: If any lifer guild/Order wants a common bad guy, hit me up. I'm always down to be an evil villain. Thats who I kinda want Z to be!
    (Oasis): Benedicto says, "There was like 0.5 seconds between "Oh hey, they're in area. That was quick." and "OMFG THEY'RE IN THE AREA STAHP STAHP!""


  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coding bit wasn't directed at you yo.

    But yeah, like I said, every time something happens, someone is going to call you that guy. You're not always going to be that guy but someone is always going to say you are.

    Dude I'm not even sure how to reply to rest of that post. You're saying you don't want to be that guy but then asking if people want you to be that guy or something. Idk. I know it was a touchy subject or w/e about starting things -personally- but on a global level I think you have the go ahead to start a fight with an entire organization without their consent.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



  • NalorNalor UKMember Posts: 774 ✭✭✭
    Just to clear things up about FIRSTAID in Aetolia and autocuring in Imperian, Ive yet to meet someone in imperian who has CODED they own curing system EVERYONE uses autocuring as its way faster, you can priorities whats cured when etc etc.. And firstaid it just cures first thing it gets.

    About Bounties most people who have bounties now, turn up to an event get a bounty then stop playing so bounties are good but sometime pointless since the person wont ever return!.
    Mudlet Bashing System for sale. Message if interested
  • IrruelIrruel Member Posts: 650 ✭✭✭✭
    I disagree that coding isn't hard.
    I'm good at it, and even if I had spare time, the thought of spending it coding would be prohibitive to me playing again.

    I used to enjoy it, but not anymore.

    So I understand, now, what I didn't understand before about people saying that coding is a roadblock to pvp.

    KerrynMoireanAngwe
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess it just depends on the person. I'll agree that it is a major time sink, and to elevate yourself from mid tier you do need to start learning more than just if statements. But entry level isn't hard, I don't think.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coding roadblock is a lot of the reason that I work on Oasis. With Serenity, I deviated from (and frankly kind of spit at the feet of) my original intention in building a curing system - to create a flexible, awesome system that you can use for free. It won't have any actual offense code built in (because that would be cheating) and offense is arguably (depending on your class) a LOT easier to code than everything else put together.

    Do y'all think that will help with the learning curve? At the basic level all you have to do is install it and it'll cure, with the capability for things like your own priorities and conditions.

    As a side note, it would be great if people stopped saying "oh coding is easy" and "ask for help" and instead sat down with someone and went "yeah, I get that it looks hard" and "here, start with ipairs(). How it works is..."

    THAT SAID, part of what I see is missing is participation at a low level - "low" here not being level of skill, worth, success, et cetera, but level of investment. There are several people that CAN PK, but just don't want to take the time to match themselves up against people like @Lim or @Valingar. That's totally fine. What I also see is a lot of inappropriate and downright unsportsmanlike behavior from a lot of people in the scene that's really discouraging on an out-of-character level. Player conflict is fun. It brings a lot of life and stake and dramatic awesomeness to story arcs - and isn't always required.

    But yeah, maybe removing the experience drop from being killed and raising the level of experience you get from killing would be awesome. AND what also needs to be addressed is the ego and posturing currently inherent in a lot of PK. For example, the next time someone picks on a novice in your guild (unless that person is really griefing them and just plain knows better), support the novice (if they want) in learning how to stick up for themselves and give that unicorn's unicorns a good kick, no matter the outcome. I remember trying to start a little conflict one time and instantly getting jumped by the top fighters from that side of the game - which is awesome, but was discouraging because I wasn't participating at that level yet. (Granted, the way I started the conflict didn't work, but live and learn.)

    Tl;dr is:

    1. Please tell me what you need in a free curing system that will bridge the gap to PK - not at the top top tier, because if you want to play with @Ezalor and @Trager you have to put the time in - but you know, to go beat up on that vampire that's been calling you filthy lifer. PM, in-game message, whatever.

    2. If you CAN PK, stop fighting other people's fights for them and encourage people around you to start fighting. IT'S REALLY FUN.

    3. Stop having your self-worth being tied up in whether you win or lose. It's okay to die. It really is. You're not dead.

    4. Go ahead and piss someone off when you're roleplaying your character. If you're retaliating on someone for pissing you off, don't have it be that God's Unholy Wrath has Fallen From the Heavens Upon Their Heads, and They Will Be Crushed Like Ants Beneath Your Feet and Be Wiped From This Earth and Kicked Out Of Their City and Guild and Unicorns, but like. Go rough them up. Emote. Spit in their face. Shout at them. Write slanderous things about them in the bathroom stalls at the Bloodloch Academy. (Don't do that last thing, the Janitor is downright evil.) Don't kill them multiple times. Beat them up a bit and stop, walk away. Above all, play your character.

    I wrote this all in one draft, so sorry if it's a ranting thing.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    MalokArekaIshin
  • AlissandraAlissandra Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    I disagree that coding is not hard. Everyone is different. And curing is not the issue, it is offense. Get Entropy and you can cure well enough to do what you need to do. But to be competitive at the most basic levels you need to code your offense and automate because you will get stomped. A computers reflexes are way, way faster than yours. I'd rather play that LOL game with @ishin than PK here. I can shoot people with my mini gun and rocket launcher and stuff and actual get better and have fun doing it. Pay of the appeal of Aetolia is the myriad of things to do. RP, artisnals, lore, religion, story arcs, questing, and even PK. To whatever degree any of those is required is going to restrict your player base. Make PK all mandatory and I will never leave Spines until I get bored and go play something else. I like having the freedom to choose my level of involvement in any of the elements.
    Malok
  • MaelMael Member Posts: 47 ✭✭
    Ashmer said:

    The coding roadblock is a lot of the reason that I work on Oasis. With Serenity, I deviated from (and frankly kind of spit at the feet of) my original intention in building a curing system - to create a flexible, awesome system that you can use for free. It won't have any actual offense code built in (because that would be cheating) and offense is arguably (depending on your class) a LOT easier to code than everything else put together.

    A good curing system would help, but to be honest, it's the offense that gives me the hardest time coding. Defense isn't too bad as it's mostly static, generally you get an affliction you can cure, you should cure it, you have a defense and it falls without costing balance to put back up you should put it back up, etc.

    Offense I am having a much harder time on, while I have some basic stuff for it it's tough for me to capitalize on anything I can get, or even have an idea for 1v1, which is a big part of why I prefer lessers, I'm not sure if templar is just hard to code around 1v1 but I know people with other classes who have been having trouble with 1v1 as well.

    I like to think my programming skills are fairly decent, I haven't yet got the syntax in LUA or swapped to mudlet yet, but I have experience with multiple languages, and do write my own programs in Ruby.

    Some of it comes down to lacking the motivation, but a lot of issue I've had is figuring out specifically what I should do, and how I, or my system should react.
  • NalorNalor UKMember Posts: 774 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Not to be a Unicorn but KLL clan is around for people to help with any coding issues/questions and only person IVe ever seen ask a question in months is @zsadist and Ouzu the other day.

    on the @‌Mael

    Some of it comes down to lacking the motivation, but a lot of issue I've had is figuring out specifically what I should do, and how I, or my system should react.


    Most Cities have a research clan im sure if you ask many of them will help you/point you in the right way to take down certain classes :/
    Mudlet Bashing System for sale. Message if interested
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai Member Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Ashmer said:



    As a side note, it would be great if people stopped saying "oh coding is easy" and "ask for help" and instead sat down with someone and went "yeah, I get that it looks hard" and "here, start with ipairs(). How it works is..."

    I would gladly do that if I knew what exactly people needed help with or where they were. I'm not sure what you run into but all I ever see is "it's hard". What's hard? What exactly do you not understand? Some of it, most of it, none of it?

    If I'm coming off snobby/rude/dismissive/unhelpful/whatever in my posts when I say "Just ask" I'm not meaning to, I just don't know where or how to help when I don't know what the problem is.


    Edit: You don't even have to be super specific with your problem, so long as "it's hard" is more than the problem.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    Ishin
  • MaelMael Member Posts: 47 ✭✭
    Nalor said:


    on the @‌Mael

    Some of it comes down to lacking the motivation, but a lot of issue I've had is figuring out specifically what I should do, and how I, or my system should react.


    Most Cities have a research clan im sure if you ask many of them will help you/point you in the right way to take down certain classes :/

    Yeah, I've tried that route, I've got some basic assistance, but it doesn't really help me with how do you get ahead of mending/tree/erase for limbs, or how do you stick X, Y, Z to go for kills with good curing.
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just to say this, that wasn't necessarily directed at you, @Draiman.

    Also: that's really good to know, @Allisandra and @Mael. I had the idea to write a tutorial how-to on how to get started on an offense, so I'll move that up on my priority list. You can do it in three different functions, the way I do it. That's probably the easiest part of building a system, truthfully, and doesn't have to be hard.

    Oasis clan is also available for anyone who wants to ask questions or get started on building their own offenses. Just pop me or anyone on the Expert User or Developer list on CLANHELP OASIS to get inducted.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

    DraimanIshin
  • AshmerAshmer Barefoot Adventurer LifeMember Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mael said:


    Some of it comes down to lacking the motivation, but a lot of issue I've had is figuring out specifically what I should do, and how I, or my system should react.

    Sorry for the double post, but this is the step I plan on addressing at some point. There are a couple of ways to do it, but it's truthfully pretty easy, at least for venom/affliction classes. I'm just now adding limb framework to my stuff, but that can mostly be done manually, and is probably best done mostly manually because of all of the variables involved.

    the way she tells me I'm hers and she is mine

    open hand or closed fist would be fine

    blood as rare and sweet as cherry wine

Sign In or Register to comment.