Spiritshields

13

Comments

  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai
    Griefing is griefing, regardless of whether the other side is doing it or not. I can not believe the mentality of "the other side/person/whoever is doing it so I can too" still exists.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    NeithanSetneHavenIshin
  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker Virginia
    Just make them not work on undead, if it's REALLY that game breaking. That'll keep Loch from using them, and cut out probs half of Spines too.
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    Haven
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.
    edited March 2014

    Everyone's up in arms about the possibility of some PK, but RP was attempted years ago when she was still in Enorian and wouldn't stop handing them out to Shadow. Her solution was to -move- to Loch\Reach. The next application is, of course, through force.

    Unless, of course, we want to all stop pretending that this isn't about RP at all and is simply getting something you shouldn't have and wanting to keep it because 'YAY ADVANTAGE', however small. The -fact- is that Bliss was changed because shadow side combatants didn't like that extra buffs could be  handed out to allies from Paladins\Luminaries, so it was changed. Now, suddenly it's ok because it benefits Bloodloch.

    If you're all ok with it, I trust everyone is ok with Bliss being changed back so we can give toughness to every class again? 

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

    Ishin
  • SetneSetne The Grand Tyrant
    Alive and loving it.

    Ingram said:
    "Oh my arms are suddenly lubed"
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai
    I haven't had a spirit shield in years I also don't care about whether it's disabled or removed or whatever. I'm up in arms about you admitting you're going to grief her and being ok with it.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    ArbreSetneCarivahIshin
  • edited March 2014
    She's really a nice girl...she doesnt deserve that kind of treatment :/.

    Daskalos said:

    It's not griefing. Every time Kerryn restocks her shops it's a 'new' offense and pkillable by Moirean because the designs she uses used to belong to Moirean (who gave them away) and she wants them back (Kerryn has refused). What's to say every time she casts it on an undead it's not a 'new' offense?


    Just because 1 person feels privileged and wants to bully her way around, doesnt mean we should all follow suit.
    ArbreIshin
  • VeovisVeovis Florida
    edited March 2014
    Daskalos said:

    It's not griefing. Every time Kerryn restocks her shops it's a 'new' offense and pkillable by Moirean because the designs she uses used to belong to Moirean (who gave them away) and she wants them back (Kerryn has refused). What's to say every time she casts it on an undead it's not a 'new' offense?




    That's extremely specious logic. That would be like saying that I could PK half the Bloodborn leadership every time they use Hematurgy because I disagree with what they've done with the guild since I stopped playing. Maybe, technically, I could, but if I did it every single day to the point that someone wanted to quit playing, I have a feeling that the admin would be having a talk with me. There are limits to RP-PK and they're in place for good reason.

    ArbreIshin
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.

    Well, it seems to me, I have no other option left. Bloodloch and Spirean players are perfectly fine with accepting Spirit-labeled buffs, so the only way to fix it since Loch\Reach continue to play on the grounds of 'I can do anything possible' versus life side going 'we have standards and rules' that if I can't change the organization, change the person.


    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

    ArbreIshinCalipso
  • I don't really think killing someone in this case -is- griefing, so long as you don't pummel them into the ground and leave them no recourse. 

    It's justifiable to attack her in this instance, she's aiding the enemy and hurting the cause. Just leave the door open for RP resolution and don't crush her back to nothingness. 

    Actions have consequences. 
    imageimage
    IshinCalipso
  • Spiritshields are not a spirit-side defence, heh, spiritshields are an outdated defence that should have been removed years ago, but sadly, was not. I've no problem with making them user-only, but asking for them to be made spirit-only is just silly.

    EzalorDraimanIshin
  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Braavos
    Or you could quit bending PK laws (because she's already been attacked for the offense more than once) and accept defeat.
    CarivahIshin
  • VeovisVeovis Florida
    Daskalos said:

    Well, it seems to me, I have no other option left. Bloodloch and Spirean players are perfectly fine with accepting Spirit-labeled buffs, so the only way to fix it since Loch\Reach continue to play on the grounds of 'I can do anything possible' versus life side going 'we have standards and rules' that if I can't change the organization, change the person.


    To be perfectly honest it seems like you expect that you'll always get your way. Some old character is back and giving out Spiritshields to vampires/Ivoln's disgusting little mummies, and you don't like it. You tried to convince her that your view was correct through RP. She moved to Bloodloch because she disagreed. She's obviously still doesn't agree with you. You're now saying, "I'm going to force her to agree with me by PKing her every time she does something I don't like." To be honest, it's a crutch you rely on, just as much as I run because I suck at 1v1 PK. 

    We don't always get to win. 
    CarivahTozHavenArbreIshinCalipso
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight School
    Daskalos said:

    Well, it seems to me, I have no other option left. Bloodloch and Spirean players are perfectly fine with accepting Spirit-labeled buffs, so the only way to fix it since Loch\Reach continue to play on the grounds of 'I can do anything possible' versus life side going 'we have standards and rules' that if I can't change the organization, change the person.


    You could just ignore her and leave her fate to the gods or fate. That line of RP is perfectly okay too. The revelation or whatever could be spun so many different ways if the players really wanted to. I do not believe it was specified what will come and destroy the Priests. Only that they would be destroyed if they did not change. So the majority of them changed to become Luminaries instead...

    It stands to reason then that a terrible fate awaits those that maintain the old ways of the Priests that was going to get them nuked. You don't have to take it upon yourself to carry out that "destruction". You're just choosing to. As part of your RP. Therefore, you're choosing to grief her because you want to as she's not RPing the way you want her to.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
    CarivahArbreDraimanIshin
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.
    Ilyon said:
     I've no problem with making them user-only,
    I believe this has been what I've been advocating all along.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.
    Veovis said:
    Daskalos said:

    Well, it seems to me, I have no other option left. Bloodloch and Spirean players are perfectly fine with accepting Spirit-labeled buffs, so the only way to fix it since Loch\Reach continue to play on the grounds of 'I can do anything possible' versus life side going 'we have standards and rules' that if I can't change the organization, change the person.


    To be perfectly honest it seems like you expect that you'll always get your way. Some old character is back and giving out Spiritshields to vampires/Ivoln's disgusting little mummies, and you don't like it. You tried to convince her that your view was correct through RP. She moved to Bloodloch because she disagreed. She's obviously still doesn't agree with you. You're now saying, "I'm going to force her to agree with me by PKing her every time she does something I don't like." To be honest, it's a crutch you rely on, just as much as I run because I suck at 1v1 PK. 

    We don't always get to win. 

    PK is part of RP and vice versa. Veovis runs his mouth, the solution isn't always to run your mouth back, it's to punch Veovis in said mouth.  You're right I don't like it. I don't like that a -Spirit- based attack (she does CHANNEL SPIRIT to be able to do this, remember?)  is  being used to give Undead a buff. But I also understand that if she were giving them out to our side, the complaining would be the same (and it was, with bliss). Bliss got neutered, I'm simply advocating neutering spiritshields the exact  same way.

    Right now, everyone is at a set standard of tankiness. There is a liaison report that is going to remove some tankiness, but this removes it from one side of the game. Also of note, while Epicurus is on our side right now, I wish it did something else. I do not understand how it is possible to balance a game with variables such as tankiness in flux based on old priests coming back or a statue being built. Without that statue, and orbs, Templars lose a bit of tank. But, you can't buff Templars because with it, they're just fine. Vampires are just  fine without the Spiritshields, is it too much with it? Who knows. Does that 5% turn a lesser battle ever so slightly? Who knows.

    What I do know is that they weren't taken into account for balancing, they don't make sense RP wise other than by people who are justifying them using the lame excuse of 'we're bad and do whatever we want'. It is -easy- to roleplay being an evil character, and far harder to roleplay being a good one. Evil lives by no rules, and can play as such. Good cannot, and good handicaps itself for it. It is then up to the administration, of which I have full faith in, to rectify these situations as they come up. Not one person has offered a single refuting point of why bliss should be neutered but Spiritshields shouldn't. Not one person has offered a comparable skill in the game anywhere. Aishia came out and straight up said 'this is a bad idea'. Ilyon says he'd support making it caster only, which is what I'd like to see.

    I, personally, wish you got auto-enemied to organizations based off of tethered classes, but that's a pipe dream. I -love- the tethering system, because it eliminates gray. I hate gray.

    Though you profess to be great ministers of faith and healing, you have overlooked your true purpose. Your guild is a mass of confusion with no common bond or goal to tie you to one another. Your skills have come to mean nothing and your place within the realm is vacant. What can I do to open your eyes to the higher way? You must change or be destroyed. Your novices are corrupt, your members are apathetic, and your leaders have committed both sins. YOU are tired. I offer respite. I offer the higher way. I will lay it out before your feet and take your hand and show you how to walk it. You will be rested and ready to face a new day's dawning. This revelation will usher in a new Age, "The Age of Enlightenment." This, you will have foretold. The Age of Enlightenment will end on the first day's sunrise after the fall of the Dark Spire. After receiving this vision, your path will be set. Should you deter from your course, you will fail. Should you grow tired and cease to move forward, you will fail. Should you look backwards to Midnight instead of ahead to Dawn, you will fail.
    Justification for IC actions.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • IshinIshin Retired Lurker Virginia
    I like how pissed off people are getting over 5 pts / 100 dmg. that's 50/1000. I don't think 50 dmg is anywhere near game breaking.
    Tell me and I forget, teach me and
    I remember, involve me and I
    learn.
    -Benjamin Franklin
    VeovisLin
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul
    edited March 2014
    If Indorani/Cabalist/Teradrim/whathaveyou had some buffs specific to their classes and suddenly started giving it out to combatants of the other side, there would be complaints voiced from Bloodloch/Spinesreach too. I agree that the protection offered is not a very big deal overall, but that doesn't make it any less aggravating to those it impacts negatively. It's a bit unfair to dismiss or downplay their concerns when all of a sudden their enemies has access to skills/buffs that was never intended for them.

    Obviously, griefing people until they quit is -not- the solution to this problem but I still think it's worth discussing without patronizing people who are of a different opinion.
    image
    Draiman
  • edited March 2014
    All righty! Usually I do not get into this, but all the circular and iterative debating is rather grating. (Also, shout out to Class Dispensing thread!)

    I would like to summarize, lest everyone keeps saying the same thing, someone says something about someone's mother or face and bam, locked. So to conclude and lay everything together, maybe this helps everyone see things a bit more clearly.

    Let's try to lay down some facts:

    Bliss: Grants Toughness, Fitness, and Resistance Defenses.
    -> Toughness 10% cutting(? - quoted from Sotere on old forums: Tue, 2007-09-11 02:24 #358 in 'Level 100 Races')
    -> Fitness - Prevents an application of asthma(/kalmia) or cures it. (Think that's it no asphyx % resist right?)
    -> Resistance - Reduces magical damage by 10% (right?)

    vs.

    Spiritshields:
    -> 5% fire resistance
    -> 5% cold resistance
    -> 5% cutting/blunt resistance

    Daskalos said, quoting Ilyon: "[I've no problem with making them user-only,] - I believe this has been what I've been advocating all along."

    Quotes from Daskalos in this thread:
    "The issue is her giving the shield defenses to others."
    "I wish they'd just make them applicable to the priest only and not bestowable on others. Especially spiritshields working on Undead."
    "Spirituality. Spiritshields. Devotion. There is no reason, whatsoever, in this tethered world that this should work with Undead."
    "In any form of RP, why would a buff that literally  requires you to CHANNEL SPIRIT work for Undead?"
    "Toss out all the bad RP that goes along with Undead being layered with a 'spirit channel' fueled defense, it's the same argument."

    "Actually, my issue is that I want the same standards applied to Spiritshields that were put on Bliss"
    "My thing is it's either all or nothing -- either defenses for a class stay with the class, or they don't."
    " I just want Spiritshields given the Bliss treatment, something that Loch and Spirean players threw a fit about until they got a couple of years ago"
    "Bloodloch threw a -fit- that we could bliss other people and give them the toughness defense if it wasn't something they had access to, because it was 'an extra damage reducing buff'. And Loch complained loud enough that bliss no longer gives defs to anyone but the owner. This is the exact same thing, and should be treated as such, IMO."
    "It feels hypocritical for anyone to say 'bliss shouldn't give defs to the others' while defending SPIRITshields. All I'm asking is for equality."

    "This is a defense, that once activated, lasts until death. You are comparing apples and oranges, again. "
    > I'm sorry but I got to make one joke here: "It's not griefing. Every time Kerryn restocks her shops it's a 'new' offense and pkillable by Moirean because the designs she uses used to belong to Moirean (who gave them away) and she wants them back (Kerryn has refused). What's to say every time she casts it on an undead it's not a 'new' offense?"  - You said apples and oranges?


    Daskalos said in reponse to Toz' calling out his Syssin skills: "I have Syssin but don't use it. It's also considered a neutral tether class. Priests are not. Druids are not. Teradrim are not. Your argument doesn't make sense bro. "
    > Priests are technically not listed in the Tether table.

    Sidenote: "Why would you want Spirit power coursing through you? And please don't give me the 'we use anything we can to our advantage' line."

    HELP HEALING - 9.23 HEALING

    Healing is a relatively straightforward, though useful, skill. By opening channels to the five Elemental Realms, you will be able to heal various afflictions in yourself and eventually others who are with you.

    vs.

    HELP DEVOTION - 9.2.2.8 DEVOTION

    The skill of Devotion is based around the life essence of devotion.

    Daskalos said: "Also: don't lump me in with Duiran. Enorian has generally held  ourselves to higher standards"
    > Don't lump Spinesreach in with Bloodloch either then. Spinesreach is not 100% undead. Bloodloch is. They have their own extreme standards like Enorian by own RP choice.
    As you said: "Duiran has always been more gray, as has Reach"


    Ezalor said: "The effect of all spiritshields is less than the effect of the Epicurus statue. Only one city can have the Epicurus statue at a time and it hardly breaks game balance."
    > There is also only one active Priest. Who may be convinced to move elsewhere or may disappear again. Just like the statue can be moved.

    Haven said: "Unless her buffs are breaking combat balance now, I find changing the skills just cause he doesn't agree with her RP to be extremely unfair. The issue primarily seems to be an RP one rather than a class issue."
    To which Daskalos said: "The fact that RP backs up the mechanical complaint is just an added bonus/"

    So the two key things raised here is that 1. You don't want Spiritshields applied to Undead (you flip-flop from that to 'others', but let's stick with undead since you mention:) because Spirit side. 2. Bliss got nerfed, therefore this should too.

    1. As is established, Priests are not tethered. Technically healing draws upon all elements. One of which is the -element- Spirit. All 'Mage/Science-type' people RP-wise would say they use/investigate the Spirit element too (Sup Cabalists!)
    Edit: I mean to say. I think in this case Spirit element =! Spirit side.

    2. Bliss and Spiritshields are two quite different fruits! Given the fact that they have different impacts. Daskalos wants equality. Bliss changes would affect all devotion users, Spiritshield changes would affect one person (or the one other person who reads this and thinks 'Oi maybe I should log in and troll too!'). Tone down bliss to grant lower percentages of resistances too or move it to monk neutral class? Or spiritshield and bliss will only affect living. (Still unequal because more bliss users than spiritshield)

    By no means am I trying to attack anyone in particular here, I know I am quoting Daskalos a lot but he seems to be an adamant and loud voice in this discussion. It seems a few people are rather strongly and possibly emotionally invested in this.

    Okay I'm done now! Sorry if I messed something up, got a fact wrong or derped up English. Now proceed to rage at me and pick it all apart again because "Oh no you spelled/got something wrong or something! You suck!"

     
    AarbrokSetneCarivahIshin
  • AarbrokAarbrok Breaking things...For Science San Diego, CA
    ....Logic Croc with a haymaker!
    SetneVeovisIshin
  • I'm curious under what logic cabalists are using spirit magic. Is this in the same vein as necromancy as a natural thing?

    Daskalos
  • PiperPiper Master Crumbs
    Xavin said:
    I'm curious under what logic cabalists are using spirit magic. Is this in the same vein as necromancy as a natural thing?
    FOIG!
    image
    Ishin
  • edited March 2014
    Notice the slash:
    "All 'Mage/Science-type' people RP-wise would say they use/investigate the Spirit element too."
    The 'Sup Cabalists' was just because I said Science.

    Also. Either way, this is not the topic of discussion necessarily right now. (Which is also OOC by the way! I hope that's clear.)
     
    Piper
  • CLEARLY the solution is to open priest class up again >>
    AlexinaArekaArbreIshinRivas
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.
    edited March 2014

    To clarify my remarks:

    I have a problem with Undead\Vampires getting them, however, others would be everyone else because the same complaining has happened in the past when we had a Priest that would give us Spiritshields.

    On what basis do you believe Spirit is an Element? The Spirit Channel used by the Priests is the same one used by the Magi originally and now the Ascendril. This has been defined as a link to the Spirit plane, which is why Damariel acted when Meltas let Zynti (a Necromancer) in the guild and made him a secretary, because it was a threat to Spirit and the Spirit Plane (also of note, Damariel at the time claimed dominion over Spirit).

    If the Priestess in question were to go Undead, her skills would quit functioning. Under the original polarization, Devotion\Spirituality\Healing\Illumination were made to have racechecks and not work with Undead.

    The point about bliss (which would affect a wider ranger of people) is that bliss was nerfed because of basically the same argument -- that it gave class defenses to people who otherwise wouldn't have them. Shadow side complained about it and thus, it was changed. I bring it up, because the very logic people are applying to Spiritshields CAN be applied to bliss. So which is it? A lot of people were upset when bliss was changed because it removed one of the guilds last 'help others' abilities, moving us further from the Priest days.

    Two liaisons have chimed in on this conversation (Ilyon and Aishia) and both have said, basically, the same thing. Ilyon (I don't think it would be a problem to make it caster only) and Aishia (anything that affects combat for other classes shouldn't be possible [both paraphrased]).

    Others, seeking to circumvent the mechanical construction came in with their stereotypical 'you can't RP you should handle this through RP lolol' crap. That is when PK was brought up as a resolution, as PK = mechanical RP = RP. They are integral parts of the game, and both are acceptable. I am, overall, amused at the fact that people are defending keeping a skill that in no way, shape, or form, should A) still be in existence but since it is B) work on most of the classes using it. She was a citizen of Bloodloch until they put in tethering. The class -is- tethered.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotion
    edited March 2014
    Easiest solution here is to remove the outlier. It really doesn't make sense for either side to be going up in arms about one person.

    Remove Priests and the legacy abilities. No more Spiritshields. If she has a problem with losing Priest and being forced to go Luminary, then refund her the lessons for the class. If she still has a problem, it becomes less about roleplay and more about her wanting to give the spiritshield mechanic to a side that realistically shouldn't have it. Honestly, no one should have them at this point though. 

    Edit: Though I'm having some massive deja vu from Imperian when demonic tried to argue that it was alright that they had spiritshields and stuff from anti-magick. That's when mechanical enforcement (e.g. circles) came into play because people couldn't behave. PvP'ers will always look to what gives them a mechanical advantage, roleplay be damned. 
    DaskalosArbreCalipsoIshin
  • DraimanDraiman Dr. Drai
    Seir said:

    Easiest solution here is to remove the outlier. It really doesn't make sense for either side to be going up in arms about one person.


    Remove Priests and the legacy abilities. No more Spiritshields. If she has a problem with losing Priest and being forced to go Luminary, then refund her the lessons for the class. If she still has a problem, it becomes less about roleplay and more about her wanting to give the spiritshield mechanic to a side that realistically shouldn't have it. Honestly, no one should have them at this point though. 

    Edit: Though I'm having some massive deja vu from Imperian when demonic tried to argue that it was alright that they had spiritshields and stuff from anti-magick. That's when mechanical enforcement (e.g. circles) came into play because people couldn't behave. PvP'ers will always look to what gives them a mechanical advantage, roleplay be damned. 
    I fail to see how her losing class and be upset about it automatically implies she wants to keep the class solely so she can give out shields to darkies.
    "You ever been divided by zero?" Nia asks you with a squint.



    CarivahCalipsoPiperIshin
  • I don't see any problem removing priest blessings from others, as the boon is so minor it doesn't matter either way.  The issue of course is the artifact.  I know there were auctions with artifacts that let people give priest blessings to others, so what happens to people with those artifacts?

    Also comparing it to bliss and saying if we have one we should have the other is a bad comparison.  Priest blessings give increased endurance and willpower regain, and 5% protection in cutting, blunt, fire, and cold.

    Bliss gives 10% cutting, blunt, magic, prevents asthma and breaks a vlock, and prevents all hunger and vomiting type effects.  Also, the number of people who can give bliss are far more than those who can give priest blessings, and while there is no way to get new priests, there are plenty of ways to get new bliss giver.  The skills are very different in their effects.
  • SeirSeir Seein' All the Things Getting high off your emotion
    Draiman said:
    Easiest solution here is to remove the outlier. It really doesn't make sense for either side to be going up in arms about one person.

    Remove Priests and the legacy abilities. No more Spiritshields. If she has a problem with losing Priest and being forced to go Luminary, then refund her the lessons for the class. If she still has a problem, it becomes less about roleplay and more about her wanting to give the spiritshield mechanic to a side that realistically shouldn't have it. Honestly, no one should have them at this point though. 

    Edit: Though I'm having some massive deja vu from Imperian when demonic tried to argue that it was alright that they had spiritshields and stuff from anti-magick. That's when mechanical enforcement (e.g. circles) came into play because people couldn't behave. PvP'ers will always look to what gives them a mechanical advantage, roleplay be damned. 
    I fail to see how her losing class and be upset about it automatically implies she wants to keep the class solely so she can give out shields to darkies.
    Alright, let me explain then because it may have come out wrong. Essentially, if they gave her a complete refund on Priest or allowed her to learn Luminary with no loss whatsoever, there's no reason to be disappointed. She can still persist in being a "priest" as far as roleplay is concerned and hell, if she wants to be a rogue Luminary, nothing is stopping her. Or, if she wanted to remain a part of shadow and maintain a "priest-like" roleplay, I'm pretty sure she can do that with the Teradrim class or whatever equiv. that Shadow has. However, if that still isn't good enough, it would imply that there would be ulterior motive involved with her truly wanting to keep the Priest class in allowing her to provide a defense and mechanic that, by all rights, shouldn't exist for either side at this point. If she wants to keep it just to be special, then I would argue that it isn't enough of a reason to maintain an outlier.
    Ishin
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.
    Tina said:
    I don't see any problem removing priest blessings from others, as the boon is so minor it doesn't matter either way.  The issue of course is the artifact.  I know there were auctions with artifacts that let people give priest blessings to others, so what happens to people with those artifacts?

    Also comparing it to bliss and saying if we have one we should have the other is a bad comparison.  Priest blessings give increased endurance and willpower regain, and 5% protection in cutting, blunt, fire, and cold.

    Bliss gives 10% cutting, blunt, magic, prevents asthma and breaks a vlock, and prevents all hunger and vomiting type effects.  Also, the number of people who can give bliss are far more than those who can give priest blessings, and while there is no way to get new priests, there are plenty of ways to get new bliss giver.  The skills are very different in their effects.
    What? Unless we have someone there blessing over and over again, it doesn't prevent vlocks or asthma. It's a one shot deal. Once it's stripped, it's gone. And if someone sitting there blissing over and over again, that's no different than Fool? Tarot. Toughness is also a blunt only boost, not cutting. And I'm not sure how it prevents all hunger or vomiting affects, as it doesn't. You're thinking rite of Well-Being that counters hunger (which is nice, because hunger is dumb). As for the artifact, I'm not even sure who -has- that artifact, but it could always be changed to only work on that singular person. Artifacts change all the time, and while it sucks, it happens. Look at old artifact weapons, armour, even the Torc of Telepathy is being nerfed this time around.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • So that is what I was trying to stipulate that due to their effects Bliss and Spiritshields are quite different.

    However, Daskalos just said: "I have a problem with Undead\Vampires getting them, however, others would be everyone else because the same complaining has happened in the past when we had a Priest that would give us Spiritshields."

    > My question is to you and others: What is more important, Undead and Vampires no longer receiving these spiritshields or would you prefer no one ever getting them but the user? And how would you feel about the artifact, granting the exact same, not getting this restriction? By extent, what should be done with the artifact?

    Seir said: "Easiest solution here is to remove the outlier. It really doesn't make sense for either side to be going up in arms about one person."

    > It may look to be the easiest, however I feel that could not be done without input from the affect person(s). By that same measure, hey an easy solution is to give every city the Epicurus statue, right? Since the artifact is also still there.

    As an addendum, not a dig here but is Haven not an outlier as well now? Since he is not of a City he is also not tethered, technically. On the note of tethering I did not want to paste this because it's a wall but:<br><br><br>SPIRIT&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; UNTETHERED&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SHADOW<br>--------------------------------------------<br>Ascendril&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lycanthrope&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bloodborn<br>Shaman&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Monk&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cabalist<br>Luminary&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Syssin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Indorani<br>Templar&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Carnifex<br>Sentinel&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sciomancer<br>Zealot&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Teradrim<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Praenomen<br><br>City organizations are also considered tethered, and an individual may<br>not join a city if he or she has classes which are tethered to the<br>opposing realm.

    Also: "PvP'ers will always look to what gives them a mechanical advantage, roleplay be damned." + disadvantages. - I like this point.

    In conclusion, we are never going to really find a way out of this without leaving some people upset, hit a snag or loophole (artifact) until we get some kind of input from the Administration.


     
    Carivah
This discussion has been closed.