Lore questions.

MaghakMaghak Member, Immortal Posts: 255 Immortal
edited February 2014 in Harpy's Head Tavern
The Pools said:
Damariel says, "Let's clear up the 'do Grook lay eggs' debate once and for all."
Valdus says, "Grooks lay eggs?"
Valdus says, "Has science gone too far?!"
Valdus says, "Learn to lay eggs with this one weird tip."

Hello again! This thread is for a fairly general purpose; if there is a point of canon that you want to be clarified, or if there is lore in the game that you cannot find in detail and want to ask about, here is the place to ask! The Gods in general (and myself and Damariel in particular) will be keeping an eye on this topic to ensure a speedy response.

Please keep it civil and avoid arguments (although you can feel free to correct someone on a point if you believe you have a better source or more information!), and be aware that we won't be posting spoilers on upcoming lore or things that are deliberately unclear at the moment.
OmeiHaernIosyneValdusDamarielCiarelleEzalorAryanne
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Comments

  • VeovisVeovis FloridaMember Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    Rivas said:
    WHAT IN THE EVERLOVING UNICORNS IS THE HOWLING???
    It probably has something to do with the Grand Artifice. 
  • OmeiOmei Member, Immortal Posts: 751 Immortal
    edited February 2014
    Truthfully - we don't honestly know. It's just an (necessary) OOC mechanism.
    image

    i am rapture coder
    Tsvanni
  • AlexinaAlexina the Haunted Soul Member Posts: 851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So. What about the 'quit' message? I was having a philosophical discussion about vampires' souls, or lack thereof, with someone some time ago, and they told me vampires obviously have souls since they pray to have them preserved (I think the actual quit message also states this) when departing the lands.

    Basically... is this even relevant to lore/IC at all? Could the quit messages be changed to something like 'Joebob begins preparing to depart the realms./Joebob has departed the realms.' or something more neutral like that?
    image
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everyone has "souls" in some form, since deathlore lets you steal them, though Carnis kinda treat that concept a bit loosely, and see them more as a type of essence (mostly sidestepping all the weird/philosophical questions the concept of "souls" bring up).
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
    Omei
  • OmeiOmei Member, Immortal Posts: 751 Immortal
    It's not really complicated at all! The undead never lose their souls. Rather, undead beings are an amalgam of earth and shadow essences. I'm not 100% on the details on this (@Maghak and @Razmael explained it to me) but there's an entire coherent system for how Dhar, undead people, and souls can all coexist.
    image

    i am rapture coder
  • SlypheSlyphe Member Posts: 617 Immortal
    If a hemlock bush dies in the Morgun but nobody is around to hear it, did it actually make a sound?

    Taras
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @omei - if you read the deathlore messages, there's all this stuff about the underhalls and the souls coming from there, which is why it gets weird, since deathlore skills work fine on the undead.
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • MoireanMoirean Chairmander PortlandMember, Newbie Helper, Guildmaster Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just to make sure we're on the right page, this is what we have in our OOC RP notes project, based on what we've been able to observe via skill messages and stuff IG. If any of this is wrong or could be improved, would love to know so I can update it.

    SOULS:
    - Consumption opens a link, somehow, to the Underhalls from which the souls are summoned for us to gather
    - Only souls of the sentient can be controlled by the Carnifex....for now.
    - The "souls" we control are not just those tied to the Underhalls and controlled by Dhar, but something more esoteric, referred to as souls as a catch-all term. The actual soul is something more nebulous, though, and directly tied to identity/consciousness and life essence of the owner
      ----> Vampires and undead can have their souls stolen, despite not being tied to the Underhalls.
      ----> The "soul" we control is some deep, visceral element of being, the thing that connects mind and body together
    The Divine voice of Razmael echoes in your head, "God of imps."
    Eugenides says to you, "Imp, Are you sure you were not born a Troll?"
    The Divine voice of Arion echoes in your head, "Every time I try to punish you for being so flippant, I find Myself laughing instead."
    Hugo has expressed his esteem of you for the following reason: Being a badass leader.
    image
  • VeovisVeovis FloridaMember Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    Does Blood Generation (e.g. distance from the Primus) still have any practical effect? I know it used to, but I've heard conflicting stories on whether it effects anything but your Dominion/Imperium title at this point. 
  • SessizlikSessizlik Muffin Mistress Member Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's up with Grecht laying eggs? They are bat-people, but they make clay nests and lay eggs like.. swallows? I really really need to know, cause it's confused me to no end since I saw the nests and I have yet to find a way to find out icly.
    image
  • EzalorEzalor Emperor D'baen CanadaMember Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Veovis it's just an honourary title at this point.
    image
  • IosyneIosyne the LairMember Posts: 529 Immortal
    edited February 2014
    Sessizlik said:
    What's up with Grecht laying eggs? They are bat-people, but they make clay nests and lay eggs like.. swallows? I really really need to know, cause it's confused me to no end since I saw the nests and I have yet to find a way to find out icly.
    @Sessizlik: Grecht are considered monotremes, or egg-laying mammals such as the platypus. They are not like bats, who have litters. I would also consider the evidence of a stable Grecht population with nests as sufficient IC information.
    image
  • IosyneIosyne the LairMember Posts: 529 Immortal
    Veovis said:
    Does Blood Generation (e.g. distance from the Primus) still have any practical effect? I know it used to, but I've heard conflicting stories on whether it effects anything but your Dominion/Imperium title at this point. 
    @Veovis: This was disabled some time ago. We're not certain yet if we're going to bring this back in any form, as there were a lot of problems with how much of an impact it had before.
    image
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Moirean said:
    Just to make sure we're on the right page, this is what we have in our OOC RP notes project, based on what we've been able to observe via skill messages and stuff IG. If any of this is wrong or could be improved, would love to know so I can update it.

    SOULS:
    - Consumption opens a link, somehow, to the Underhalls from which the souls are summoned for us to gather
    - Only souls of the sentient can be controlled by the Carnifex....for now.
    - The "souls" we control are not just those tied to the Underhalls and controlled by Dhar, but something more esoteric, referred to as souls as a catch-all term. The actual soul is something more nebulous, though, and directly tied to identity/consciousness and life essence of the owner
      ----> Vampires and undead can have their souls stolen, despite not being tied to the Underhalls.
      ----> The "soul" we control is some deep, visceral element of being, the thing that connects mind and body together
    Of note, Dhar has stated all souls belong to him and each should be judged by him. The fact that the undead bypass his halls is what makes them so offensive to him. 

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • XavinXavin Member Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Iosyne said:
    Veovis said:
    Does Blood Generation (e.g. distance from the Primus) still have any practical effect? I know it used to, but I've heard conflicting stories on whether it effects anything but your Dominion/Imperium title at this point. 
    @Veovis: This was disabled some time ago. We're not certain yet if we're going to bring this back in any form, as there were a lot of problems with how much of an impact it had before.
    Please don't, or if you do have it be something that is as non-mechanical as possible. I've heard stories of people being able to effectively bash on only corpus mending and that makes me :(


    Question: What makes the shadow and spirit planes habitable by mortals where the four 'traditional' planes are not?


    edit: Question 2: Regarding progressive enchantments: What were the Naldereth trying to do with them? Did they have a specific purpose for each one? Is the purpose of the few that remain known? (Granted, I only know of one that still exists)

  • ArbreArbre Arbrelina Jolie Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,999 mod
    Haha, I used to bash Moghedu at level 25ish with mend only.  This was back before reanimation.  It was glorious.
  • SaritaSarita The Pillars of the EarthMember, Guildmaster Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to agree with hoping it doesn't happen. I know some really awesome people with lower bloodranks now, and I'd hate to see them lose opportunities to get to embrace people just because they know they'll have a harder time bashing/fighting/whatever if they don't have a high rank.
    ArbreTrager
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    If the Underking has dominion over the undead, why do we see Varian at the mirror? Shouldn't, thematically, we go to Dhar? Especially since Varian is turning more and more into a mythological creature no one ever sees.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

    Aarbrok
  • HaernHaern Member, Immortal Posts: 969 Immortal
    Daskalos said:
    Of note, Dhar has stated all souls belong to him and each should be judged by him.
    So cute. So trusting. :(
    HavenTsvanni
  • DaskalosDaskalos Credit Whore Extraordinare Rolling amongst piles of credits.Member, Guildmaster Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The irony of it all is that Daskalos doesn't actually believe in the gods as being superior beings, save Dhar because his is the dominion of Death. He actually is almost agnostic in that he believes the gods are just a 'step above' and given how many mortal shells have imbued themselves with divine essence, he quietly searches for ways to do that to himself. He followed Auresae for this reason, and Damariel. If Maghak had been on the light side, he probably would of ended up there versus Dhar.

    image

    image


    Message #17059 Sent By: Oleis           Received On: 1/03/2014/17:24
    "If it makes you feel better, just checking your artifact list threatens to crash my mudlet."

  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Daskalos: Yeah, I don't consider everything the gods say ICly as absolute law or true (though my characters may believe such) unless they're stepping outside of their role into an administrative one. They're characters just like us who can lie and mislead or whatever. Only they're infinitely more powerful than we are (or so we're lead to believe.).

    So while yes, Dhar may say "All your base are belong to me." does not mean it is true.
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Speaking of Varian, will he ever have more of a role in the game than is currently present?
    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
  • OleisOleis Producer Emeritus Member, Administrator, Immortal Posts: 1,393 admin
    Haven said:
    Speaking of Varian, will he ever have more of a role in the game than is currently present?
    Probably not. He was a producer god before we realized those were better off not having important game roles. If my Aetolian history is correct, the last Varian is the president of the company. He's a busy dude.
    You say to Slyphe, "You're so freaking smart."
    [---]
    "^," Slyphe agrees with you.
  • AarbrokAarbrok Breaking things...For Science Portland, OregonMember Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know a while back Achaea (Sorry for making the reference) changes their halls from death from being that of Maya (A Producer Role) to that of Thoth (god of Death/Endbringer)

    Is there a way perhaps we could do a similar thing with ours to keep it more lore based, Perhaps maybe Dhar for Living, and Ivoln for Undeath/Vampire.  I think that would give us a bit more accuracy in the scheme of things.


    Also, on another note.

    I have found it difficult to ICly explain instances to novices, for example the Shade of Xaanhal.  In character Aarbrok sees it as entering into a alternate reality connected to ones person, but I cant accurately explain why I can see that and others cannot unless they synchronize to my wavelength.  Is there any clarification on what an instance is.  Is it like a pocket reality, alternate plane?

  • IosyneIosyne the LairMember Posts: 529 Immortal
    Daskalos said:
    If the Underking has dominion over the undead, why do we see Varian at the mirror? Shouldn't, thematically, we go to Dhar? Especially since Varian is turning more and more into a mythological creature no one ever sees.
    It's been discussed that the death sequence becomes adjusted so that the living go before Dhar. There just hasn't been any forward momentum yet on making this into a reality.
    image
  • OmeiOmei Member, Immortal Posts: 751 Immortal
    It's definitely on the to-do list, just can't give you an estimate of how long, other than Soon™.
    image

    i am rapture coder
  • VeovisVeovis FloridaMember Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Sarita said:
    I'm going to agree with hoping it doesn't happen. I know some really awesome people with lower bloodranks now, and I'd hate to see them lose opportunities to get to embrace people just because they know they'll have a harder time bashing/fighting/whatever if they don't have a high rank.
    The Bloodborn have the ability to change someone's blood rank pretty much at will, so long as they can find a willing vampire with the desired rank. It also wasn't as much of a problem when re-Embrace was possible. You could move to a higher blood rank. My character did it twice. If they did bring back a mechanical advantage it would have to be much smaller and/or not affect the same things it did. 

    [SPOILER]They don't use it very much, because... okay. I can't rage about the Bloodborn anymore, we all know I'm disappointed in how much the Bloodborn kowtow to Houses and the Imperium/Dominion because my character was dumb as a box of rocks and supported its head as his successor. Unicorns. I did it again.[/SPOILER]
  • HavenHaven World Burner Flight SchoolMember Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hrm. So is Varian's role going to be gradually phased out? :( That kind of sucks.

    Is it true that the gods are all pretty much equal in power now? Because I always thought the hierarchy was based on "power-level" for a lack of a better term and not just the order of their creation by Varian.

    1. Varian
    2. Severn and Damariel
    3. Haern, Dhar, Lleis
    4. Ivoln, Auresae, Galleus/Maghak, Slyphe
    5. Iosyne, Omei, Chakrasul, Khepri

    ¤ Si vis pacem, para bellum. ¤
    Someone powerful says, "We're going to have to delete you."
    havenbanner2
    Murad
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